My workload continues to rise. It has now reached a point where many of my favorite writings — linkfest and Street.com columns — are falling by the wayside.
Rather than totally dropping some favorites, I am thinking of adding some assistance, perhaps an intern or two to help me out.
On top of that, on deck is a large, complex research project that I have not yet accepted. If I decide to do this, it is going to require one or two research assistants.
A few friends have suggested hiring some college interns.
What are people’s thoughts on working with interns? Should I reach out to local colleges (NYU or Columbia)? Any specific ideas, suggestions, experiences to share?
I did it in college – but technical stuff, R&D at local med school. I got the appointment by way of references – profs recommended me to the research team. I’d go talk to profs at NYU or Columbia and ask them if they’ve got students looking for part-time work they could recommend.
If the prof’s ask for a cut – go to a different prof.
Hey Barry:
If you could use someone with a life sciences background, please drop me an email and I’ll forward my resume.
Thanks,
PS
I think internships are a great opportunity for a student looking for a toe hold in this world. I really think that’s the way you should go.
BR,
So you are human. I was begining to wonder…
Agree with Dryfly but would add that most large college departments have someone who focuses on intern placements that you can speak with and that it helps to create a detailed (but as short as possible) task list so both they and you can focus on the skills you really need: Some of what you want may require technical expertise, some may require broader skills such as common sense, grammar and keyboarding.
Given the quality of the student population in NY, if your skill description(s) are appropriate, some of those interns will probably wind up becoming your employees (and you’ll be glad to have them).
BR,
remember Gordon Gekko’s insight–don’t overlook CUNY, or, even, Fordham..
Barry, if your research project can wait until the summer, you might be able to hire an MBA student who has just finished his first year.
They will want to be paid though.
My suggestion? Hire a kid who has a liberal arts undergrad (say an English major) who is mid 20s, worked a while, and has gone back to school to get an MBA.
That way the kid will not only be able to write, but also provide analytical capabilities as well.
I say this as English undergrad and MBA.
You won’t go wrong with that combination.
Barry, one of my hard-learned lessons is not to outsource a core competency. The Linkfest is your, very personal, selection and commentary so I’d be thinking of having someone else do it only if that person has demonstrated your skills. Yeah, right, that’s easy….
Interns, in general, that I’ve had have been best at speculative endeavors. An indifferent intern will flub whatever is assigned, and a great intern will be bored by a mundane project. They’re not just a prospective employee because a lot of them are ambitious and want to get lots of experience. Hence, I put interns in that special place where failure isn’t a big deal but success can be built on.
I really miss the Linkfest, I used to set aside several hours of Sunday morning to chew on the issues you addressed. But clearly we must move on, however reluctantly.
~~~
BR: Its not the link selection — core competency — but the excerpting, editing and HTML coding that is so time consuming.
Re Interns:
You may want to contact Josh Marshall at talkingpointsmemo.com. Josh has been working with unpaid interns in his shop for some time. His office is in New York.
You may or may not want to worry about whether an intern gets course credit for their work. Regardless, the kind of experience you’re offering ought to have enormous appeal for graduate students in business related programs. Using the criterion of enrollment in a graduate degree program could also solve your selection problems regardless of whether you provide academic credit, i.e., taking only those students whose career goals not only coincide with your needs but whose pre-vocational skill set includes an undergraduate degree.
There can be lots of other problems as well, but I’m sure you already have sussed them out (or will) when you put on your lawyer hat.
Good luck. I envy the students the opportunity you’re offering.
Barry
I’m assuming you want to have someone do this for free or beer or pizza. If so, undergrad interns are the only way to go.
Skip NYU, go for Columbia. Undergrad business schools are shite.
Would be cool if you could hire some interns who are already BP readers.
Would recommend bringing on at least one more intern than you need. Helps them to have others to bounce ideas off of as they learn and generates healthy competition. And if one of them just doesn’t work out, you could let them go and still have enough help around.
In my experience : On the positive side, interns often bring a fresh perspective and good attitude. On the negative side, it can often take a lot of time and effort getting them up to speed on the basics of what you need done.
Hope you get some good help to free up your time because we miss linkfest!
English undergrad and MBA? Not if, he is looking for quantitative research with db skills.
Barry, you should have linked the “newsflashr” posting again and called it the linkfest.
Also, what makes a research project a “complex research project”? I wondered what kind of stuff you do, and went to BRR website, the two samples you had was about Etrade, and WSJ. The write-ups sounded more like your own observations that analytical consulting, not to mention they both basically promoted blogs, and not actually saying but alluding to “E-trade, you should hire me to partner-blog with you”
and this comes from a reader who is addicted to TBP, so I am not trying to get a rise out of you, but that’s what I thought when I read the samples.
I have often used interns with great success. I am in the software business, so I used computer science people.
I found them bright and hard working. Contacting local schools, as you suggest, is the best way to hire them. I did hire one from Harvard, even though I worked in NY and it also worked out very well.
Good luck.
Barry, don’t waste your time. If you are going to do something, do it right. Don’t half ass it with interns. Don’t spread yourself out too thin.
I am a retired Reuters news correspondent with time to help you with research and writing. Before joining Reuters I was a business news reporter for The Chicago Tribune and The Kansas City Star. I also had a brief stint as a senior editor at the old Mutual Funds Magazine.
My help would have to be of an on-line nature because I live in Greenville, SC. But I could help on special projects, and could serve as an on-line copy editor. I’ve noticed that as you have become more and more harried your posts have included more and more embarrassing typos. I could eliminate those for you simply by proofing your posts before you put them on-line. My telephone number is (864) 244-7714 and my e-mail is danruck2000@yahoo.com
I pulled in a bright college intern to chop wood and carry water on a website build that I didn’t have time to do on schedule on my own. I’d plan a day or two’s work, explain, answer questions, and review once the assignment was completed. It is an art, and effort, to prepare assignments, but I found the amplification and reach extension to be more than worth it.
Columbia. Grad student(s). Must have good grades and read voraciously. Must have references and original copy to prove capability. Must be willing to work in your facility (not telecommute).
You will have many to choose from.
IMHO
Just a suggestion:
Have a specific, detailed plan (open to revision) set up re: workload or you’ll be shifting your time to managing someone and bringing them up to speed rather than allowing you to be more productive in other, more valuable areas to your business.
Paying older, retired/semi-retired folks w/ little drama in their lives tends to work out better in my experience. But, I prefer having folks around who don’t need a lot of oversight and can stay focused on producing the required work.
Then again, you may have other requirements like looking for potential new hires, etc., so this may not be appropriate for your needs.
Note: I’ve got nothing against interns. I’m just not set-up to train and manage people every day and you may not be either.
It sounds like you are considering some strategic moves in the business itself, so these larger issues may define your direction.
Good luck!
Hell son, don’t be stupid. Outsource it to Chindia. Everyone else does. Plus, they work while you sleep.
Whether you can work with interns or not depends on how good your management skills are, and how tightly defined the project is. Interns require managing. If you do decide to go with interns, make sure you tell them the big picture and see if they “get it” before you put them to work on the specifics.
Barry, could you please update the loyal (fanatical?) followers of your blog?
I thought you were going to stop allowing TheStreet to bastardize your work!
Thanks for your thoughts.
I second the Josh Marshall reco, I’ve been reading his and your work about the same amount of time.
There is no harder organizational change than from 1 to many…but the amazing quality of the comments I’ve read here should certainly help.
Replacing the grunt work is probably what can help you the most. Then you can do the linkfest again. I think the key is to not consider any job specification as too small, such as the whack-a-mole game of weeding ass-hats and spammers.
Think of a simple, small job that just might be taking too much time and draining your energy at the same time, and just farm that out.
I like Dan Ruck’s offer too, who says it has to be a “beginner”?
Why only consider interns? With all of the layoffs on Wall St., you should have your pick of some very knowledgeable professionals. Give one or two of them the opportunity to leverage their expertise and do something worthwhile and productive for a change.
Speaking as an undergraduate student myself, I’m sure you won’t have any problems finding an unpaid intern. The amount one could stand to learn should cover any monetary concerns.
I’d jump at the opportunity myself if not for being Canadian and visa issues possibly complicating matters.
Come to think about it, would ‘volunteering’ mean I just need a entry visa? If you’re willing to go through the trouble, drop me an email and I’ll send you my resume.
Thanks,
jqwerty
Speaking as an undergraduate student myself, I’m sure you won’t have any problems finding an unpaid intern. The amount one could stand to learn should cover any monetary concerns.
I’d jump at the opportunity myself if not for being Canadian and visa issues possibly complicating matters.
Come to think about it, would ‘volunteering’ mean I just need a entry visa? If you’re willing to go through the trouble, drop me an email and I’ll send you my resume.
Thanks,
jqwerty
My .0125 Euro worth: in my direct experience I’ve seen great interns come out of Carnegie Mellon and MIT. But have also seen great associates from slightly less luminary universities from candidates with experience and character that became solid employees and associates. I recently heard from a colleague about a propeller-head that was just hired but is exhibiting signs that the work is “beneath him.”
So I vote for local sources if there is a place in your organization for them long-term. Else ensure the role suits the candidate and that it plays a big part in their career development.
Best of luck!
Dan and I noticed that you implied an in person local NY area commute to the office need, but did not specifically state that this person could not operate from a booth in the midwest or a hut from India.
Also, you are so diverse in here with topics, does this person need a deep knowledge base of the financial world?
As far as my thoughts on interns churning out TBP. This blog at most times seem to be your (BR) opinions. I agree with another writer, I seem addicted. If I began to feel I were dealing with many editors, I don’t know what that would do to the blog (or your journal online) and my desires for intake. A man (or a band) against the world?
Definitely a grad level intern at the least. You don’t want to have to “manage” an undergrad or recently graduated intern.
No offense to them, I was one, and have managed quite a few. It will be a zero sum gain for what you are trying to accomplish.
Barry,
As a Wharton undergrad, I am sure that you’ll be able to find smart minds at any school (business or not). May I suggest to you the summer interns who had their offers rescinded from Bear?
Best of luck in your search.
I’m a Junior at Marshall at USC and would be thrilled to be able to help. Obviously I can’t work in Manhattan, as I live in Los Angeles, but can help in any other capacity. Very hardworking, enjoy reading and research, have access to huge libraries and databases. jjjenkin@usc.edu if there’s anything I can do.
“Hell son, don’t be stupid. Outsource it to Chindia. Everyone else does. Plus, they work while you sleep!”
—
“The son of hell, is not stupid. Externalize the with Chindia. Each one differently. More, they function of the labor while you sleet!”
If you are looking for someone beyond intern level experience, I know a guy who worked on Wall St. for quite some time: major investment bank, enviable client list. He retired a year or two ago and now seemingly splits his free time between golf and reading blogs like TBP.
I have been a TBP reader for several months now and am a Junior at Loyola Marymount University in LA. I would be very interested in an opportunity to intern for TBP.
Hi Barry —
I will be graduating this May of 2008 and intended on working in corporate finance – e.g. an entry level trading role with a prestigious firm, such as the Bear Stearns of the world, but we know how that story ended.
-I founded a Global Core Equity fund (Montezuma Money Management) at my college, which will be featured in the San Diego Union Tribune and thestreet.com.
-We had a return of 35% last year.
-We will be visiting the Oracle of Omaha, Mr. Buffet, at his annual investors conference this May and will hopefully be attracting more attention in the coming months.
I’m looking for more of a full time role- although I could probably live off of free pizza and beer.
My blog, which is more geared toward fellow traders and less of a macroeconomic view of the world is fickleinvesting.blogspot.com.
I must warn you — my degree holds very little clout. I thought most of the models in my finance class were absolutely archaic and useless (SEE: growth dividend models and many of the binomial pricing models) which is reflected in my grades.
The key to delegation in a small business, as has been noted by at least one other, is a clearly defined delegatable function. Otherwise, your workload rises (gd it, I could do it faster myself, etc.). So until you can define clearly delimited functions the delegation of which would actually reduce your workload (or redefine them as such) it won’t work.
Spam killing, for example, is a good one. Posting link fests the links to which you have already identified is another. But without strict forethought, it’s just added drama.
You are a successful money manager and can’t afford to pay your support staff? The emperor has no clothes.
Hire one Qualified assistant and all the interns you need. That way your time will not be spent watching after interns. Also try to hire somebody that is very good at what you don’t like to do.
Hi Barry,
I suggest you try to tap the potential of international students in U.S. universities too. Northeastern University in Boston get’s EXCELLENT candidates from Germany, Spain, France and Italy through their international business program. And 6 month internships are part of their undergrad curriculum.
Hi Barry
I know investment research outsourcing companies in India and can help you get some paid help if you decide to use the same.
Atul
Having hired and managed interns, I agree with those who say you have to have a plan with specific goals and they should be overseen; they can not simply be set loose. It requires some thought, effort and supervision. I suggest paying them; they will be more motivated. I would also experiment; one or two undergrads (not just accounting or business majors PLEASE) and an MBA. You can determine for the future which is more useful to you.
If you’ve got the time, spread the love and see if there’s anyone at Zicklin that could do the job.
BR,
I’ll be the third to suggest you talk to Josh at TPM (because we know all you bloggers talk to each other).
Most colleges have an internship director. I’m sure if you contact the career resources people they’ll bend over backwards to help you out.
Here’s columbia’s (my employer)
http://www.cce.columbia.edu/employers/resources
I’d also second the CUNY recommendation, those kids actually have to work for their eduction.
As a former NYU grad, I would have jumped at the chance to do some intern work. That’s a good option.
However my former boss was looking for telecommuter to work for him and found an econ grad in Indonesia to do all kinds of web related stuff. After some negiotations they settled on a wage rate. My boss thought the wage rate was per hour, but my to his’s surprise is was per day.
Barry,
In my experience, you should pay interns.
Students are way too busy nowadays to care about a unpaid, part-time job. They will quickly lose interest when things get really busy at school.
OR you could automate the whole Linkfest process. You might consider finding someone on Rent-A-Coder to create a custom software application that would take in all the weeks headlines into a database and automatically create the HTML links. By checking off little boxes, you could select the headlines you wanted to include in the Linkfest. You could have a field for for additional commentary. When you are ready to publish the Linkfest, you hit a button and it would create the entire thing.
Plenty has been said already, but a lot depends on how you work. Interns generally need some hand-holding to get started, and they are still hit or miss. I think they are more suited to large organizations where they handle minor tasks but get to soak up some knowledge.
If you can get a kid who knows how to code and understands that’s what you need, it should work out. Be careful of mission creep though, If they are not being paid, it’s easy for an intern to try and spend time on what they want to do, rather than what they need to do.
Have you really been doing all this posting by yourself for this long?!?!
That is impressive considering the other stuff you seem to be involved in.
Does Mrs. BP get picture-phone updates to remind her of what you look like.
PLEASE don’t use the phrase “reach out”…ever! It’s wishy-washy politico-consultancy speak.
Thanks.
For the Linkfest, consider bookmarking using del.icio.us and then automatically posting using (though I’ve only tried it for daily posting).
As for an assistant, hire a web type person to take care of administrative, maintenance, blog design, html coding, spam monitoring, troll control, etc. Interns, especially unpaid, are extremely short term solutions.
Or the other way around: join a network, like a financial version of Gawker. Two blogs I read joined with larger entities: Intel Dump went to the Washington Post, and Freakonomics went to the NY Times. Don’t know how much independence you’d give up though, or if it would be considered “selling out”.
Hi. I work in the research division of major computer company in NY. I’ve worked with many interns. My experience is that, with undergraduates, you put in more than you get out. My suggestion is to focus on graduate students. They are motivated and are productive right away.
I agree that you should focus on grad students. In this job environment, a lot of people graduating from B-school right now are still jobless and would jump at an opportunity to make some cash and/or pad the resume and get a nice reference.
I can put you in touch with the people at my school (Brandeis) as I know there are plenty of new grads who would jump at the chance.
You must have at least 20 or 30 stalkers on your site that would do it for free. What I’d suggest is test the BP waters here first.
Prepare a rough draft of the work you want done(for the linkfest for example) and farm it out to any reader who wants to do an editing audition. I’m sure you’d get at least 20 – 30 replies. Then go with the best ones. Compensation is up to you but you’ve got plenty of quality ad space. You could give some of that up or you could just do straight cash or maybe a wishlist for the person down the side or something.
One thing you will definitely get is someone who is doing a labor of love and not a job. That is an overlooked intangible that should work in your favor
Barry,
I can’t believe you do all this alone.
I am a long time reader living in Miami, Florida. Currently I do some analyst work and I’m a pretty big financial junkie in my spare time too. I’m good at digging through obscure reference materials and finding stuff. Basically, I’m interested in this research project you mention. If you want to send me details, holler.
my experience with using interns on a magazine:
–grad students were best, as they were seriously motivated.
–whatever the pay scale, you’re hiring someone, with all that that entails for your time managing them.
–if editing and writing are part of the deal, give the prospect an editing/writing test. Really. It will save you much face in the long run.
Interns….was one myself and trained others in accounting, tax and auditing.
Inexpensive labor, but lots of hand holding.
My advice as have some others above, define skillsets needed for your assistants, contact dept’s at some universities regarding interns and the skills you are looking for. Colleges/universities offer an exposure to subject matter, so their exposure will probably be a little or a lot different than way you want things actually done. Some prospects will appear to be great until they actually get out in the real world and find out they cannot apply their knowledge. Just because someone has good grades doesn’t necessarily mean they can apply what they have learned. Look for prospects with some common sense. Expect a bit of hand holding anyway. Good luck.
one major GAFFE.
you assume that AAA-rated schools produce good students.
when usually they produce self-indulgent, unsubstantiatedly self-entitled, impetulant lazy fucks that will milk you for everything and drop the ball in overtime.
i, on the other hand, am dedicated by design. but you missed your chance to hire me, barry. i’m working for someone else now.
plus, your writing voice is much hotter than your speaking voice. i thought it might be cool to work in your office with a secret and tragically unrealizable crush. but then i saw you on tape.
let’s just say i DO believe you do this all by yourself, and that quite a few things have gone to the wayside :X
columbia grad: my erstwhile namesake spake “is it not all for naught, when democracy means the farm animals dictate?”
hernandez: um, i think it really sucks that your school has used insider tricks to declare eminent domain on my home.
columbia: shut up, you impetulant fool. and learn to speak english.
hernandez: don’t you mean petulant?
columbia grad: don’t tell me what i mean! i went to an ivy league school! you are the kind of person whom i think will amount to nothing. how dareth you!
hernandez: um, i like, got a full scholarship to fordham. and you don’t know shit. and the boss says to clean up the back.
columbia: insufferable! i quit. clean this, you stupid spic.
hernandez: you’re so dumb, you can’t even tell your empire just imploded. i hope you learn spanish, son.
columbia: i hope you develop better taste in books, movies, and insults. mwahahahahahahahaha
Uhhh? Ok.
I’m sure you’ve probably recieved plenty of responses, but if you send me an email, i’d like the opportunity to send a resume.